Comments on: Will HPC Be Eaten By Hyperscalers And Clouds? https://www.nextplatform.com/2022/03/09/will-hpc-be-eaten-by-hyperscalers-and-clouds/ In-depth coverage of high-end computing at large enterprises, supercomputing centers, hyperscale data centers, and public clouds. Thu, 19 May 2022 21:29:04 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.1 By: Dan Olds https://www.nextplatform.com/2022/03/09/will-hpc-be-eaten-by-hyperscalers-and-clouds/#comment-191584 Thu, 19 May 2022 21:29:04 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=140183#comment-191584 There are a some roadblocks standing in the way of this thesis. One is an old truism “nothing grows to the sky.” The other is that there is no free lunch. Every IT organization, cloud or on-prem, has to have slack capacity in order to handle workload spikes (both anticipated and unanticipated). The larger your infrastructure, the more slack capacity (in real terms, not proportionate) you have to have to handle the spikes. This is very expensive and will have to be priced into the cloud fee schedule.

In our research, we’ve heard several things that argue against the cloud being a suitable host for HPC today, here are a few of the biggest: 1) You can’t get enough instances in the same region for a large HPC workload…2) You can’t significantly reduce your IT staffing just because you go to the cloud – you still need app specialists, storage specialists, tuning specialists, etc., etc., and 3) The costs of public cloud are 3-7x the fully burdened costs of on-prem.

It’s interesting to consider recent moves by Amazon and Google to extend their system life by an additional year. They added 25% to the useful life of their systems. There’s a reason for this. Could it be that their reading of the tea leaves doesn’t have them taking over the IT world? I don’t know, but it’s something to consider.

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By: Timothy Prickett Morgan https://www.nextplatform.com/2022/03/09/will-hpc-be-eaten-by-hyperscalers-and-clouds/#comment-182820 Mon, 14 Mar 2022 14:53:10 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=140183#comment-182820 In reply to Wayland Sothcott.

The way I see it, this gives us all a lot more time to work on the warp drive….

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By: Wayland Sothcott https://www.nextplatform.com/2022/03/09/will-hpc-be-eaten-by-hyperscalers-and-clouds/#comment-182636 Sun, 13 Mar 2022 01:03:09 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=140183#comment-182636 Yes you nailed it and made me chuckle. To put it simply the PC ate all the home computers in the 1980’s then ate all the mini computers then ate all the Cray computers. My PC has the power of a super computer if I go back enough years yet it’s basically the same PC and PC concept from the 1980’s. Yes we may call it a server but it’s just a PC adapted to the rack rather than the desktop. The fancy exotic super computers simply can’t keep up technically or commercially. However I do think there is a lot of scope for building a massive processor out of FPGAs. These are somewhat faster than CPUs for many tasks because it’s programmable hardware which runs the algorithm in logic gates.

Anyway it is a shame to see HPC get swallowed up by a cloud of rack mounted PCs but I suspect there will always be a lab somewhere who are building something so different that they even have to make their own parts.

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By: Ukr https://www.nextplatform.com/2022/03/09/will-hpc-be-eaten-by-hyperscalers-and-clouds/#comment-182541 Sat, 12 Mar 2022 04:45:11 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=140183#comment-182541 Please define terms before using them: “Hyperscalers”

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By: Tony Hutton https://www.nextplatform.com/2022/03/09/will-hpc-be-eaten-by-hyperscalers-and-clouds/#comment-182477 Fri, 11 Mar 2022 15:45:59 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=140183#comment-182477 In reply to Miguel Tiempos.

Seems to me the HPC people can have that now or in the very near future and as the article points out, at much better economics – not years and years away. That’s mainly because of what is offered today and the quick rate of further development taking place in AI. Did you see how NVDA opted to not focus on the FP64 market with latest GPUs? I imagine that is because the AI they’ve already managed to achieve together with partners, provides the needed answers, just in a different way. Someone likened the AI approach to having done the math in one’s head vs. the sort of brute strength approach with emphasis on FP 64 precision as being longhand math on paper. While the answers will be the same, one is much more expensive in terms of compute power, and unnecessary. I find that an apt analogy.

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By: Just a Realist https://www.nextplatform.com/2022/03/09/will-hpc-be-eaten-by-hyperscalers-and-clouds/#comment-182361 Thu, 10 Mar 2022 15:58:06 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=140183#comment-182361 The HPC market is significantly larger than the niche systems located at national labs, the occasional university, and within three-letter agencies. Vast majority of HPC workloads and applications don’t require esoteric hardware or the highest bandwidth, lowest latency interconnects (most operate over vanilla Ethernet though certainly the Cray-HPE Slingshot Ethernet delivers both as well as predictable performance under very high loads which most Ethernet and prior to recent improvements in Nvidia’s Infiniband implementation do not).

This is not to say that there isn’t room for custom hardware components (integrated, chiplet, or wafer-based), but that hardware needs to seamlessly provide its value without requiring application and workload modification. Let’s face it, HPC’s Achilles Heel has always been its legacy (some would say antiquated or perhaps decrepit) software stacks which take anywhere from 9-18 months to port before much but never all of the full potential of any new hardware or system can be realized. When you combine system delivery delays (how often has any custom HPC system been delivered on time), the huge porting cost and time delays, and the rapid performance gains of the underlying hardware (distributed HPC systems don’t use or cannot tolerate rolling hardware upgrades which means for much of their very limited productive years, they use 2+ generations of lagging hardware), one has to question their economic viability. Add into the mix politics driven by many who have little to no understanding of the technology, science, or potential benefits to humanity, and the current custom HPC operating model becomes extremely questionable.

In contrast, cloud providers have mastered supply chains leading to massive economies of scale, scale-out system / solution management with fully integrated security and resiliency, and the ability to rapidly and seamlessly integrate new hardware and capabilities (lagging hardware is quickly redeployed downstream to less demanding applications ensuring that demanding applications operate on the best at hand). If they see a viable market or an opportunity through public-private funding, they are more than willing to invest to deliver what their customers need. Some cloud providers are even certified to provide on-premises gear within high security / sensitive environments including various three-letter agencies.

Cloud providers are far from perfect, but they can support nearly all but perhaps the most extreme niche HPC applications and their capabilities and benefits from multiple economic and technology perspectives far outweigh their shortcomings. Industry standards are critical to defining the mechanical and communication edges, but they need to be carefully designed to enable not hinder innovation. Far, far too often hardware and semi-conductor companies driving industry standards try to lock down, and all too often, artificially delay specifications and innovations to meet their own business requirements. Such efforts have slowed and constrained innovation. Further, such efforts have led to overly complex standards which unfortunately leads to many non-fully interoperable and compliant components. Fortunately, some of this is starting to change, e.g., the DMTF specifies a wide range of flexible data models that abstract the underlying hardware implementation which can dramatically simplify software-hardware integration while accelerating innovation and new service and capability delivery.

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By: Timothy Prickett Morgan https://www.nextplatform.com/2022/03/09/will-hpc-be-eaten-by-hyperscalers-and-clouds/#comment-182338 Thu, 10 Mar 2022 12:15:53 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=140183#comment-182338 In reply to Raj.

I think GreenLake is a kind of outpost, and it has traction and a chance. But that only addresses the infrastructure layer. The addition of Cray certainly gives HPE more longevity because of all of those skills in HPC, particularly with workload expertise. But consider that many of the key architects of Cray now work at Microsoft Azure.

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By: John Weiler https://www.nextplatform.com/2022/03/09/will-hpc-be-eaten-by-hyperscalers-and-clouds/#comment-182336 Thu, 10 Mar 2022 11:40:32 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=140183#comment-182336 One of the best contrasts of HPC vs CSP I have read in over a year. Nice job. Will share this widely.

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By: Raj https://www.nextplatform.com/2022/03/09/will-hpc-be-eaten-by-hyperscalers-and-clouds/#comment-182302 Thu, 10 Mar 2022 04:50:10 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=140183#comment-182302 What about Opex based HPC on-Prem as provided by HPE Greenlake?

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By: Miguel Tiempos https://www.nextplatform.com/2022/03/09/will-hpc-be-eaten-by-hyperscalers-and-clouds/#comment-182295 Thu, 10 Mar 2022 03:24:49 +0000 https://www.nextplatform.com/?p=140183#comment-182295 I Believe that this article is a wishlist from someone in AWS or Google, or someone without the budget to acquire an HPC System. The companies or Institutions that need answers to complex problems are not going to wait for all the jargon mentioned here, and wishful thinking, they need answers now, fluid dynamic models now, not in years to come. So I call a bluff of this article, HPC is a 40+ billion a Year industry that has been growing Year over Year, I see this on a day to day scenario, and it only is growing!!!!

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